New Life LIVE: August 26, 2026

Guest (Male): Welcome to the New Life Live Podcast. We hope to provide help and hope in your life through God's Word, counselors, and psychologists as we answer questions from listeners who call with the challenges of life. Let's go to today's episode.
Brian Perez: Welcome to another episode of New Life Live. I'm your host, Brian Perez, and we're going to be here for two hours today. So call in and let's talk about whatever it is you're going through, those trials and tribulations, those troubles that keep you up at night. Call in to 1-800-229-3000. Answering your questions today, we've got Sherry Denham Keffer. She's a doctor of marriage and family therapy. We've also got parenting expert Dr. Jim Burns, the founder of Homeward. Great to be on with you two again. Jim, what's on your mind to start us off?
Jim Burns: Well, first of all, I love being with Sherry, so it's great always to be with you. I love always being with you. And I love the New Life listeners. I get to meet them because, you know, I speak, and so they come up to me and they go, "Hey, I heard you, and I want to disagree with you on this subject that you said." Anyway, today I'm going to talk about the sandwich generation. What I found out was actually a quarter of Americans are in the sandwich generation. So you probably know what it is, but a sandwich generation is when you're squeezed between raising kids still, and whatever age of your kids, and your parents who are still alive and maybe you're taking care of your parents. Literally one out of four. I mean, that means that there's a whole lot of people who are dealing with this. For many, I'll just be honest with you, it's kind of overwhelming. It affects so many parts of your life, your emotional life, of course, your relational life, big time. Physical, it's tough. Spiritual, financial. Financial's a big one. A lot of people have talked about this as I started doing research on it. For many, it just brings a great deal of tension and, like I said, just sort of overwhelming. If you find yourself in that, then I've got a couple of tips for you today. Number one is prepare for the crisis before it hits. Before your mom has a stroke, before your dad has some kind of a problem. Not just medical, but things start happening. So prepare for it. And how do you do that? Well, first of all, I think you have a conversation about what are we going to do with Mom when she can no longer be in the home. I think we have that with our siblings because a lot of times one person—we had this for 11 years—Cathy, my wife, had her mom. She was the primary caregiver, my wife was. And the other siblings, we never had the conversation. They were happy to have Cathy do it, the oldest child, and we probably should have had that conversation. Discuss a general plan with the family is what I'm saying before, and I mean the whole family—your spouse, your kids—before it happens because it's going to affect everybody. Try to get on the same page if you can. A lot of times you can't, but try to get on it. And then what are the costs involved? Again, there are physical costs, there are mental costs, there are relational costs. Like I said, there are also sometimes financial costs, and that's going to take some energy in the relationship. Secondly, I would say find and use available resources. One of the things that I see happening, Brian, I hear this all the time, we'll get calls and we'll say, "Well, you could call the government. They could help you on this," or go to your church or various things. So literally, there's government, there's nonprofits, the church. Become kind of an expert in how to help seniors if you're thinking about your parents who you're trying to take care of a little bit more now. And again, get help from other family members. Don't be afraid to ask, and they may not be as good as you at it, but for your own sanity, get that happening. And again, just don't rely on yourself. Seeking help should be viewed as a sign of strength, not as failure. By the way, that's good for counseling. This show is a counseling show, and when you get counsel, then you're showing strength, not weakness. And then lastly, find ways to take care of yourself. Practice self-care. I hear that word all the time here on the New Life broadcast, but practicing self-care is not selfish, friends. It actually will help you and help everybody else. So anyway, set some boundaries and deal with your own anxiety and depression and all the stuff that goes along with it, and you'll be better off.
Brian Perez: And by all means, if you want to talk to somebody about that today, we're going to be here for two hours at 1-800-229-3000. We can talk about the sandwich generation. We can talk about maybe you're engaged, about to get married, you've got some jitters going on or something. Let's talk about that. Did you recently graduate and now you're wondering what to do? Call in. Let's give you some guidance at 1-800-229-3000. To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-New-Life. Now, back to New Life Live. You might have heard us talk about the Hope Together Conference, which is coming this October to Allen, Texas. You can also watch it online. What I appreciate about Hope Together is that it isn't just inspiration. You're going to leave with practical tools that you can immediately use in conversations with people who are struggling with anxiety or marriage issues, trauma, grief, addiction, parenting, so much more. Visit hopetogether.com to find out more about it, and you can use code NLM20 for 20% off the registration. Our very own Becky Brown is going to be one of the speakers. Again, you can find out more at hopetogether.com. It's happening in October. 1-800-229-3000 is the number to reach us today here at New Life Live. We're going to go to the phones in just a moment. Roberta, you'll be up first. But Dr. Sherry, I think you wanted to comment on something Jim said.
Sherry Denham Keffer: It was so interesting when you were talking. I'm sure you all didn't notice, but my right eye was twitching while you were sharing. And both of you may not know, last Wednesday, I almost lost my mom. And so I flew out Wednesday morning. Long story short, but was with her over the last five days and got back on Sunday. She's stable. She had some surgery, blood transfusion, but she's doing okay. But I'm not doing okay. And when you go through loss or when you're in the hospital and you're fighting for somebody's life, which I was—as far as my mom wants to be alive, I'm fighting for her—you guys can probably hear my voice. It's just I'm weary. But one thing I learned in the twitching of the eye, and I'm so glad you landed with self-care, is I have been sleeping a ton since I got back. Like a little newborn baby that just needs to go to bed early and sleeping in. All that energy, the stress, when your eye twitches or your face twitches, it's actually a sign that stress is leaving your body. So never beat yourself up for that. Just notice it, but realize that there's something that's going on that's being discharged. It needs to get out of your body. So I want to say thank you for sharing that. It's very common to many of us. I'm not sure if I'm a sandwich generation, but I'm a daughter who's got a parent who's aging, and it's a very real thing that many of us are dealing with.
Brian Perez: It really is, and it does take a toll on our bodies, our minds. You want to do it, and yet at the same time, if you're not taking care of yourself, it can take you down at the same time. And then you feel guilty, "I'm sleeping more, I should be with Mom, or I should be doing that," and that's actually not a healthy thing.
Sherry Denham Keffer: So thank you.
Brian Perez: 1-800-229-3000. Roberta in Santa Clarita, thank you so much for calling us today. How can we help you?
Roberta: Hi, can you hear me okay?
Brian Perez: Loud and clear.
Roberta: Oh, great. Okay. So first of all, I want to say that I love your ministry. New Life Ministry is amazing. I've been to your Getting Unstuck Conference.
Brian Perez: Okay.
Roberta: And I have the Life Recovery materials and including a Life Recovery Bible, which I love. So I just wanted to start with that. I love your ministry.
Brian Perez: Life Recovery Bible, you can get one in the newlife.com store. Looks like this. Great Bible.
Roberta: Wonderful, wonderful materials. Okay, so I have two older sisters. I'm the baby, and we're all in a row. I'm 61, then we've got the middle sister age 62, and then the older sister 63. So when we were little, you know, we were all kind of toted around as a group. But the middle sister, she's really scary toxic. And the older sister, she and I, we have a relationship. You know, we're not as super close. Anyway, so the middle sister's reaching out to me now and honestly, I would prefer that she have a wonderful life and I have a wonderful life and we think good thoughts towards each other but that we don't communicate. That would be ideal, but she doesn't. And I'm a Christian. I just don't know how much I should put myself out there when she's really hard to deal with. She affects my mental health, which then affects my marriage, and I don't know what to do as a Christian. If I wasn't a Christian, I would just end it and say, "Look, we can't communicate. You're too toxic."
Sherry Denham Keffer: So when you say toxic, can you help us, Roberta? Because that's a word we all understand, but give us a quick example so we know the behavior.
Roberta: Oh, gosh. Well, I don't remember a lot of my childhood. My older sister said that this sister and I would be fighting all day long, and my older sister would get on her bicycle, come back hours later, and we'd still be fighting. But I don't really remember any of that. But as an adult, I would say just insult from like head to toe, every part of my body, how I walk, how I talk. Just really mean to my mom. She raised her voice a lot, like in restaurants, draw attention to us in restaurants, and argue with a TSA agent over her lotion bottle is too big, raise her voice in an airport talking about political conspiracy. And, you know, I'm freaking out thinking we're all going to get kicked out of the airport, stuff like this. A lot of it is, oh, gosh, my mom, she's really mean to my mom, to the point where my mom went to her pastor and then her pastor couldn't even handle it and he said, "Look, you're going to have to go elsewhere." Like, my mom's pastor wouldn't even help her out really. He tried, but—
Sherry Denham Keffer: Yeah, so unsafe, emotionally unsafe. Kind of disruptive, right? She's disruptive, maybe attention-seeking, setting you and your mom up to feel unsafe. Okay, so those have been long-term patterns. What is she asking you for right now? Like, to text, to have a phone conversation, to see you, to what?
Roberta: Well, should I tell you a little bit more about the background, like the dynamic?
Sherry Denham Keffer: I think we've got enough history. I'm just wanting to know what she's asking of you right now that makes you afraid.
Roberta: Well, she doesn't even have to say anything. I just see her name come up on my phone and I'm instantly fight-or-flight, you know? Okay. But she, oh, gosh, not much, really. She's not asking for much. Okay. But my older sister says, okay, so they both aren't Christians and my mom and I were Christians, so that was always a point. But my older sister's just like, she's weaving a web, she's going to try and draw you in. I don't know.
Sherry Denham Keffer: So you know what this sounds like? Let me tell you what it sounds like, and I'm going to hear from Jim. You know how my eye started twitching at the beginning of our call today when Jim was talking about parents taking care of parents? It feels like your sister and the trauma that you've had surrounding her unpredictableness—right, all the things that you mentioned—is in your body. You're getting triggered by even her name. Just seeing her name, all of a sudden you feel this jolt, like I was just sitting here and my eye started twitching. Like you can't make that happen, right? You can't make that happen. That's when you realize, huh, I've got some trauma in my body around what has happened to me, and I need to do what I can to release that because it's not good to host that. But in your case, you need to do what you can to also have some boundaries and protections around yourself. Now, sometimes as Christians, we feel like we're not entitled to have boundaries. We have to be kind of a forgive-all, good Christian, let somebody bop us in the nose or drag us around and just need to let it go. And that's not true. Right? Even Jesus had to brush off his sandals and walk away from situations. But my sense is that there is some kind of narrative that's going on with you and your sister that kind of lathers it up and creates more of a fear rather than you kind of figuring out what you need to ground you, to be able to say no, to be able to not respond. Just because she's texting you doesn't mean you have to answer, right? And so those are internal boundaries. Like wherever you would have a hula hoop around you, your body, your heart, your mind, your soul, you're entitled to have a hula hoop around you to protect you from someone that has hurt you or is hurting you. But if you don't feel like you have a hula hoop around you, you're going to feel like a fawn, a deer that like a tiger is walking around you. And I'm like, she's not walking around you. Your body is holding the charge that she's walking around you. You can find protection in yourself. You can find safety in yourself. Does any of that make sense?
Roberta: Yeah, it does. It does feel like a tiger. But yeah, I don't know if I could hear her name or see her name come up on my text without having that fight-or-flight reaction, you know?
Sherry Denham Keffer: And that fight-or-flight is in your body. That's work that you get to do with a therapist who specializes in trauma and can help you get that out of your body. Is that weird that you would be holding a charge in your body for all these years, like electricity?
Brian Perez: And even a charge that she doesn't remember because she said that she doesn't remember fighting with her sister back then.
Sherry Denham Keffer: I know, I know. But our bodies can host that for decades. And so it's kind of like our brain remembers a story and it puts the information in an inbox and that story hasn't been archived into some kind of a filing system. And so all you have to do is see your sister and that information is in the in-bin. It's like right there, and everything flares up like it's happening right now. But it's a memory of what happened. It's in our bodies. It's held in our bodies. What do you think, Jim?
Jim Burns: It's definitely in my body. Yeah, it is, and there's—you haven't done anything wrong. Just like I haven't done anything wrong. I just gotta get it out. Yeah, and that's why it's so good, Roberta, to make sure that you're having conversations with people. A counselor would be great who could probably help you find what some of those—use the word "trigger", I think—what are some of the major triggers? And that's where you kind of set up some of those boundaries. Remember, boundaries aren't necessarily walls. Boundaries are much more building a structure around your life that really helps in this relationship. So as a Christian, you were saying, my other sister's not a Christian and whatnot. As a Christian, we do want to honor the relationship as a sibling, but we also want to protect ourselves. Protection is a good thing. So a boundary is protecting you from some of the things that are causing you. So when you do a boundary, for example, if you were on the flight with her apparently and the TSA, she's yelling at the TSA person, don't go on—take a different flight. Our family, because of somewhat dysfunctional, not my extended family, there's a lot of alcoholism in it. So we have our Christmas party, it's at our house. We don't provide alcohol, and in three hours we're done because we can handle three hours. It works. So there's little tiny bits of hanging around with unsafe people. But sometimes as Christians, we think our job is to help them become safe instead of unsafe. And sometimes we just have to understand we're not responsible for her actions. She's 62 years old. So you're not responsible for her unsafe behavior, and you don't have to put up with her unsafe behavior. And in doing that, that's setting a boundary. That's putting a stake in the ground. And at the same time, there are moments where you can show love, give a loving response, but with some boundaries set in there. I just think that's what you do. But get the help. Somebody can help you walk through that.
Sherry Denham Keffer: Yeah, there's things like Brainspotting, EMDR—eye movement desensitization reprocessing. Those are like trauma treatments that help to get it out of your body so you're not hosting it at the level that you've been hosting it.
Brian Perez: Yeah, she's almost getting PTSD from—
Sherry Denham Keffer: Yeah, she has it. Not she's almost getting it. I'm like, she has post-traumatic stress from her sister. She's not alone. You're not alone. No, no. It's break time. We'll be right back. To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, visit newlife.com. Now back to New Life Live. When you're battling destructive habits, recovery can often feel overwhelming and impossible to navigate alone. But freedom is possible, something we talk about all the time here at New Life Live. Lasting change begins with understanding the deeper roots behind addiction. To gain tools that can help you move from feeling stuck to taking meaningful steps forward, join us September 17th. We've got a 90-minute webinar that night. It's called "From Addiction to Freedom: Biblical and Clinical Help for Lasting Recovery." You can get all the details about this at newlife.com. You can also call us at 1-800-New-Life or text the word WEBINAR to 28950. Seconds later, we will text you back a registration link, and we'll also send you a free tip sheet called "Seven Steps to Overcome Addiction." And if you can't join us on September 17th, register anyway because after the webinar is done, we'll send you a link that you can watch for about a week or so after that. So again, it's called "From Addiction to Freedom: Biblical and Clinical Help for Lasting Freedom." 1-800-229-3000 is our number, and let's talk to Ken in Milwaukee, listening to us on SiriusXM Channel 131. Welcome, Ken.
Ken: Hi, thanks for taking the call. I called in because I was listening and you guys were talking about family generation or sandwich generation and some of the stresses that go with that. And while I was listening, I got a call from my mom who just turned 91 and who has been dealing with computer issues and people trying to hack her computer. And the two messages were coinciding because I just recently, a couple months ago, had a major computer phishing attack that did quite a bit of financial harm to me. And so anyway, it just resonated with me what you're talking about as far as how to deal with, not only in my case, having a major financial loss, but then trying to help protect my mom, or for some of the listeners, maybe they're in a situation where their parents are older and they're trying to make sure their parents don't get victimized because there's so many attacks going on. And that was the major thing that I had on my mind. And then, but this is the first time I've actually listened and I wanted to just add one last thing and then I'll just sort of listen. But one of the things I'm really struggling with right now is that I am somebody who has kind of changed over my life and really wants to live in faith. And I have been, I feel like I've been called in certain directions. But I have a struggle in the spiritual realm and the physical realm, and I have kind of a network of friends who are really fighting spiritual battles these days. And there's a lot of what we feel are spiritual attacks that are strengthening a lack of trust in government and leadership and society. And to me, after my hack from my financial accounts, I really am having a difficult time trusting almost anything. And you know, I do trust spiritual guidance, but it's very hard to live in a world where you see a separation between spirit and physical and you're starting to really feel like the physical world has gone awry and continuing to go down a path just don't even believe in anymore. So with that as a context, I'll listen to anything you have to say.
Jim Burns: Well, Ken, I think you're actually bringing up an issue that we all have. We, you know, there are spiritual attacks that take place, and a lot of times when we're not, as you said, you kind of turn toward faith, when we haven't turned toward faith, we're not even aware of that stuff. And so, yeah, it does happen, and I think the greatest way to do it—today I went to the gym, okay? And when I went to the gym, I didn't love it. I don't look, if you're looking on YouTube, I don't look like I'm the gym rat, but I'm working out. And you know what? There's even some pain with working out, but it's getting me in better shape. And I think as we learn to trust in Him and we learn to discern, like you say you might even be making some changes there, you learn to discern by putting in the effort. Paul said to Timothy, "Discipline yourself for the purpose of godliness." So I think we discipline ourselves spiritually, just like me, I'm trying to discipline myself to go to the gym more. And yet there's some pain in that, pain of discipline rather than the pain of regret, right? And so I just want to encourage you to—you mentioned friends, great deal, because you've got some friends. With those friends, make sure that you guys are accountability partners, talking about trust, doing all that kind of stuff. When it comes to your mom and what you went through a tough thing, so now you're probably her IT person. I always laugh at that because I was that way for my dad until he passed away, and I hardly knew what I was talking about, but he always called me, "Jimmy, I'm having trouble with this phone here." Well, just turn it off and turn it back on, Dad. And half the time it'd be okay. Point I'm saying is that's a great way to serve your mom. And if you can do that without being too triggered by all the craziness that can happen, then you're helping her like crazy, more than you realize. And if you can't, find somebody who can, and maybe there's even another family member. But I would say it goes back to that discipline yourself and then you'll learn to discern.
Sherry Denham Keffer: Yeah, I'd love to pick it up. I hear the music, but you were traumatized. You had a traumatic event, Ken, when your computer was overtaken and it's cost you a lot of money. There's a belief that gets wired in at the crime scene, literally. It's "I can't trust anyone." So I want to talk about it when we get back.
Brian Perez: All right, Ken, stay on the phone. And Angela, we're going to talk to you as well, and everyone else. 1-800-229-3000. Every day we hear from people all over the world who are looking for hope. They've been lost in a relationship struggle, addiction, anxiety, depression, all kinds of ways. Wouldn't you love to be part of a rescue team? Don't miss your opportunity to be part of something that changes lives every single day because every one matters. Your generosity helps find them. And you know, we've seen God work in the lives of so many people over the years here at New Life, and we want to invite you to be part of what God is doing. "99 for the One" is our partner program that you can give to the ministry on a monthly basis to make sure that we continue to reach out to the lost. Call 1-800-New-Life, 1-800-639-5433, or newlife.com/9941. Join the mission, rescue the one and restore the many. To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-New-Life. Now back to New Life Live. And let's go back to Ken in Milwaukee. You still with us, man?
Ken: Yeah, I'm still with you.
Sherry Denham Keffer: I will say, I have an appointment that I gotta run to shortly, but I am here and I appreciate you.
Brian Perez: Okay, we'll make it quick.
Sherry Denham Keffer: Can you give me three minutes?
Ken: Yes.
Sherry Denham Keffer: Okay, good. So, our brain wires in a negative belief that I can't trust anyone. The opposite of that, the truth is I can choose whom to trust. Now when you had that financial loss by criminals, your brain wired that in. That can actually start leaking into every area of your life, and then it happens with your mom, right? And then spiritually, and then spiritually stuff happens and we can actually question, "Can I trust God?" And so, the Apostle Paul said it's really important to focus on what is true. The truth is, and your goal to get to, Ken, eventually, is this: I can choose whom to trust. That's your goal. I don't know how you're going to get there, when you're going to get there, but I want you to write that down because when you get to the place that you can say I can choose whom to trust, there'll be a settling that'll happen in your body. I want to share, I pick up on you, I feel like you're like a warrior. I feel like you are fearless. You've made a 180-degree turn, and I like that you're on the front lines. I want to let you know who our fearless leader is, and I'm sure you know this. I'm reading from John 16:33, and it says this, Ken: "I have told you these things so that in me"—right, in me, Jesus—"you will have peace. In this world, you will have trouble." None of us have to even look around to know that that's true. "In this world, you will have trouble, but take heart. I have overcome the world." So if we will keep our eyes on our fearless leader and know that, yep, this is happening because it's supposed to happen, but we don't lose heart in God or our ability to trust people that are trustworthy, it helps us stay intact. So hopefully that three minutes helped line you up and give you somewhere to go with what you're challenged by right now.
Brian Perez: Keep your eyes on our fearless leader, not the leaders that are in government and wherever else. Yeah. And that goes for all branches and all parties, not picking any specific ones or anything. But Ken, thank you so much for calling in today to New Life Live. So glad you found us there on SiriusXM Channel 131. And ladies, if betrayal is part of your story, we have help coming up for you at the Restore: Healing After Betrayal workshop. It's happening in November. You can take a step toward healing by getting the details at newlife.com/restore. We kind of wish we didn't have to do this workshop, but we know that it affects women and we're so sorry that you've had to go through this, that this is part of your story, but we want to help you. So get all the details at newlife.com or by calling 1-800-New-Life. Angela in Philadelphia, how can we help you? Thanks for listening on WBYN and calling us at 1-800-229-3000.
Angela: Hi all, can you hear me?
Brian Perez: Yep, loud and clear.
Angela: Good afternoon, thank you for taking my phone call. I feel like I'm stuck in a hard place. A little bit of background, I met my husband 16 years ago and little did I know at the time, I think we're in an avoidant and anxious attachment dynamic. I didn't see it that way at the time, I didn't even know that existed. There's always been this push and pull, push and pull of needing and having different wants along the way to a degree. But the biggest thing that's happened in our relationship is me finding out that not only has he been watching pornography since the age of 13, that it's been happening our entire relationship as a coping method. And as of five years ago, I learned that it's an addiction, well, going on six years, in 2019. And that's been a battle in our marriage ever since, at the forefront. I'm stuck in a place right now I don't know how to move forward. I've been crying out in prayer if I should stay or if I'm standing in the way to God. I will say I've been his biggest support, but the issue is I'm the initiator. And so I am exhausted. And every time I hear a man call in on this radio show and say I'm stuck, I don't know what to do, I need direction, I cry because if only the person that I was married to could realize I also want help and there's a way. And I'm so grateful that they're on that journey on their own. To be the wife fleeing and begging and setting up the answers for someone is exhausting. He's a good man. We have a lot of things in common on the surface. We built a life around that. And up until those moments, which is hard to let go of, you know, we're in a place where my daughter graduated two years ago. This should be the happy time in our life. We're only heading into our mid-40s. I want to have a plan, I want to have a future, I want to have a solid foundation with this person. But I feel like I'm doing most of the work. And he has come a long way in certain areas. He has met not professionally with a counselor, but with our pastor several times. He did attend a men's group twice in different scenarios. And in every single instance where he's challenged to get to the roots of the why, he shuts down and backs out. And that's the end of that progress. And so the place where I am right now is the pornography is blocked, but he's spending like crazy. And I realized that that's been the additional coping. And we've always had a difficult time agreeing on finances, but now it's at a rapid pace. And so I don't know how to sit back, I don't know how to make an ultimatum, watch our house crumble, watch our finances crumble. How far do I stand back and let him fall into his own pit of despair until enough is enough? I feel like I keep helping and enabling and begging and you know, just to give one scenario of how far he's come. Like we're in public at this point and he knows if there's a trigger coming up, if there's a person dressed, you know, in a way that would be uncomfortable, it's summertime here. You know, we'll change an aisle, go in a different store. Like he doesn't want me to feel uncomfortable or me to worry about him being triggered. We're really navigating how we sit, how we position ourselves, how we carry ourselves in public, what we watch. And we're in agreement on that and I think we've come a long way. However, just one instance if I can quickly, so we have not spoken in three days. He's continuously attaching himself to people that make him feel good and make him feel—he's not dealing with any of the things, his low self-esteem, his need for external validation. And this has been our whole relationship. There's always some female in his life or some circumstance—his toxic mother—a coworker that plays a very important role in his life that he guards. And so, for example, three days ago was his birthday. There's a specific female at his work that he's been very close with the last six years. Nothing sexual in messaging or in support, but I think it makes him feel good that she's very loving and doting, as I am, and goes to her for advice and courts to her and checks on her about her relationships and she's been buying him gifts for his birthday and Christmas as the last couple years. And it feels like too much. I told him it made me feel uncomfortable, and it's not that I thought he was doing something inappropriate necessarily, but that dynamic of closeness was making me uncomfortable.
Sherry Denham Keffer: But let me, let me help here because Angela, a woman buying your husband gifts at work, that's an emotional affair. Okay? So when I hear you say that that's not really inappropriate, that's very inappropriate. And so what you may need is somebody to really help you and help him get very, very clear lines around the behavior that is harming him, harming you, and harming your relationship. And like a referee, there are very clear lines. There are very clear lines, like black and white. And until we call them black and white, we kind of feel stuck in the gray and that feels very confusing. One of the things that I was wondering about, I'm like, okay, so how many days of sobriety does he have? When is the last time he looked at pornography? Now, that—there's something called a circle plan. And I am a certified sex addiction therapist, it's called a CSAT. That's something that is developed when somebody is working on a porn addiction. Well, you know what else would be in that center circle, which is red, is contact, females, conversations of a personal nature with females in his workplace. That's a no-fly zone. Because that emotional energy, that emotional affair, is causing you harm. Now, someone who's listening might go, "Sherry, I think you're being a little extreme. How can you say it's an emotional affair?" Well, there's gifts that are being given. Were you okay with those gifts?
Brian Perez: Plus it's been going on for six years.
Sherry Denham Keffer: Yeah. You're not okay. If you're not okay, it's not okay for the relationship. We've got to take a break. We'll be—we'll come right back to you, Angela, and we're going to be here for another hour so call in with your questions. To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, visit newlife.com. Now back to New Life Live. And let's go back to Philadelphia now. Angela, you still with us?
Angela: I am.
Sherry Denham Keffer: Yes. So my book is called *Intimate Deception: Healing the Wounds of Sexual Betrayal*. And I have a chapter in that book that is on boundaries, and the chapter heading is called "No is a Complete Sentence." And so what I'm hearing is you are longing for him to be different. You want him to change, you're doing a lot of the heavy lifting. But what isn't happening at some level—and this isn't your fault because I think a lot of us just don't know how to do this—is exactly, it's the boundaries. It's something that's going to have to wake up him and wake up your relationship, that there is a line in the sand and you're not okay with what's going on. I know as a certified sex addiction therapist and a partner trauma therapist, I do these things called therapeutic full disclosures and polygraphs. Now, it's not just going to Acme Polygraph, it's a truth-telling opportunity for both people, you to know what's true and him to get into truth. But you've said a couple things, his mom is toxic, I'm wondering did he feel like he had to take care of his mom? There's some men who have a porn addiction that have what's called mother enmeshment.
Angela: Exactly. That's exactly it. Every time I've read about it, it's him. He has had negative relationships with men, so he's attached to him as her everything. And he denies that and gets very angry about it.
Sherry Denham Keffer: See how good you are at giving information. So this is—so my book, I want you to get, and the other book I want you to get is one by Ken Adams that's called *Silently Seduced: When Parents Make Children Their Partners*. And Ken Adams talks about how that mother enmeshment sets young boys up to have porn addictions, sex addictions, and they're looking for surrogate moms. But you're right there, you're not his mother, you're his partner, but they don't know how to attach to their spouses well because they have an aversion towards that glommy enmeshment that they felt with their mom. Now I'm explaining a lot and there's so much more that Ken—that you can learn and he can learn. But I want to encourage you guys to get in to see some certified sex addiction therapists that can help put some black and white and clarity and get you guys on a better path. You don't have to be floundering. There are resources out there.
Jim Burns: Yeah, and there really is a plan. Part of those resources, there's a plan that can bring healing. And the plan—you're not going to like the plan because the plan means you've got to be a lot stronger and yeah, you're supportive and enabling this a little bit. So the plan, part of it is kind of creating a crisis for him where he's going to have to make some very important decisions. Is he going to choose his relationship with you? And I honestly believe that he loves you and wants that, or is he going to keep going with this addiction? One of the ways to do that is to kind of create that crisis. That's why when Sherry says read her book—by the way, her book is a great book—read her book. And I love that she said—I actually circled it when I read the book—that no is a complete sentence. You're going to have to say some nos in there. But to do that, you're—if you play the movie forward, it's going to be a lot better. So you want to get with that person who specializes in this and they're going to be strong with you too because—and they're going to hopefully be really supportive of you, but you're going to have to come up with some—with a plan that does work. We've seen it work over and over and over again. And yeah, is sinfulness a part of it and all that? Sure. So people, you know, always don't go with the plan. But it doesn't sound like he really has a plan. I mean, he talked to the pastor for a bit, but he needs a plan and you need that plan. And that would be the best thing you could do for him is to honestly go get the help. And if he won't go see the counselor, then you go first.
Brian Perez: So this is the studio copy, the office copy of *Intimate Deception* by Dr. Sherry Denham Keffer. It's available for purchase in the newlife.com store. And whoever's read this particular copy in the past has chapter 15 highlighted there in the contents, "No is a Complete Sentence." So kind of like what you just said, Jim, that you circled those words.
Jim Burns: I think I've stolen that now. I give Sherry some credit for it, but you know. Some lady said something.
Brian Perez: But yeah, pick up this book in the newlife.com store. Also, the Restore Conference that we talked about just a little bit ago, that's coming up in November in Washington D.C., right?
Sherry Denham Keffer: That'd be so good for you, Angela.
Brian Perez: And that's not far at all from you there in Philadelphia, so you've really got to look into this. It's happening the weekend of November 13th. Plenty of time to sign up.
Jim Burns: You know, one of the things that I find with a lot of people—and I think this could be Angela too—is that there really are answers. But you've got to—but sometimes you don't like the answers either because it means making the hard decisions and whatnot. So there really are answers, and I find a lot of people honestly don't know that because they're not experts on it. So that's why we go and get counsel and wisdom is just because there's an expert that kind of goes, "Oh, I got you here. I got your back. Let's create a plan together that's workable and see if this works." And sometimes that's what saves the marriage and that's what saves the relationship. But the path to fidelity and the path to purity in a relationship and intimacy in a relationship never flows through emotional affairs and it never flows through porn. It always flows when you break that addiction cycle. And it's possible because there's thousands of people who've said, "Did it, hasn't been easy, it's working."
Sherry Denham Keffer: I mean, if I didn't have in my mind to your point, Jim, couples that are now 7, 9, 11, 12 years sober, they are heroes for me. They are out there living life and proving that with this roadmap, with this plan, knowing what you need, getting to the right professionals, growing your strength, your boundaries, creating a disruption like you said that's going to make him not comfortable at all. Those are the things that help to wake up a system that is just staying on that addictive path. So there's a ton of hope. I mean, we wouldn't be doing what we're doing if there weren't people that we know personally that are doing well and have gotten through this.
Jim Burns: You know, I'm aware of a woman who's a pastor's wife, actually. The pastor was addicted to porn, and then she only thought it was addiction to porn only, but of course then it was other stuff that she didn't know about. And she was so supportive and so loving and all that in her mind. And then one day she said, "Okay, enough's enough. You're either going to get help or you're going to—or I'm actually separating from you." She didn't say I'm getting a divorce. She said I'm separating, and I mean it. And you know what? He went and got the help. He actually came to Every Man's Battle here, and he got the help. Today he's back in the pastorate and they're actually doing really good, but she had to be strong and firm. And then she needed the help, so she was in a group too, of course.
Brian Perez: Yeah, Every Man's Battle is another weekend intensive that we offer here at New Life Ministries. In fact, we've got one coming up in Orange County, California. So if men you're struggling with your sexual integrity, sign up for the Every Man's Battle Intensive. It begins on the 11th of September, and you can find out more about it at newlife.com or by calling 1-800-New-Life. We've also got a discount that expires this Friday. So if you sign up by this Friday, you can get a discount on the registration. Again, go to newlife.com or call us at 1-800-New-Life to sign up for that. And thank you so much for supporting us financially. Everything that we do here at New Life, the radio program, the podcast, the intensives, so much going on here behind the scenes, and it's all made possible because of your prayers and your financial support. If you can become a monthly partner, our "99 for the One" partners, we would so appreciate that. But even if it's just a one-time gift, that'd be great. Small gift, large gift, whatever you can do, it helps support what we do here and we really love talking to people and helping them find their path towards healing here at New Life Ministries. Nadine, we're going to talk to you, and the phone lines are still open so call in. Thanks so much for listening. We hope something you heard will help you live in freedom today. If this content was helpful for you, we would love it if you would take a minute, leave a review, post about it, and rate it. Remember, we have resources and workshops online for you as you continue your journey. Go to newlife.com to find out more information. And thank you for being part of the New Life community. We know that God desires all of us to live a life of wholeness and healing, and we're so glad that you're here.