New Life LIVE: August 27, 2026

Announcer: Welcome to the New Life LIVE podcast. We hope to provide help and hope in your life through God's word, counselors, and psychologists as we answer questions from listeners who call with the challenges of life. Let's go to today's episode.
Brian Perez: Hey, thanks for joining us today on New Life LIVE. I'm your host, Brian Perez, here with licensed marriage and family therapist Chris Williams and clinical psychologist Dr. Jill Hubbard. We are here to discuss whatever you want to discuss, whether it's divorce or grief or anxiety or depression—so many things we can talk about here. Dr. Jill, what's on your mind to start us off?
Dr. Jill Hubbard: Well, hi, guys. Good to be with you again. So, okay, just a random topic here: offense or defense. When we are born, we come into the world in a more offensive position of openness. As we develop, we develop defenses in life depending on our environment and circumstances. Some help us to be adaptive. Sometimes it's denial, sometimes it's splitting or suppression. Some are healthier than others. But specifically, we all do a little bit of dissociation. We all use that as a defense. There are mild everyday dissociations like getting too absorbed in a book where you feel like the characters are almost real, daydreaming, or what I love: highway hypnosis, where we all get lost and think, "How did I get from point A to point B?" Sometimes, though, life is a little harder, and dissociation happens at a higher level. A more moderate form of dissociation is depersonalization. We feel detached from ourselves and feel like we are watching ourselves in an experience. It's a form of safety for us. Derealization is where we are detached from the world around us, almost in a fog-like state. Or like dissociative amnesia, where we forget big chunks because they're too painful. As you move into more severe states, we often can lose periods of time, not be aware, and then clear to dissociative identity disorder, having these encapsulated feeling states that almost seem like distinct personalities—different parts of ourselves that have split off. We develop these things in relation to trauma, to life circumstances, and at the time, they're very useful. But one thing that's interesting is that our brain doesn't always catch up with what we no longer need. I was talking to someone recently and we were looking at the fact that to still utilize some of these defenses, to still utilize dissociation once one is safe, actually can make you more unsafe. If you are walking around and you're in a dissociative state and not really connecting with the world and your environment, you are putting yourself in an unsafe and vulnerable position. And yet so much of it is to protect ourselves and to keep things out of awareness. Awareness is painful. Awareness is our offense. We need awareness and to lean into that and to have others who can help us let go of some of the archaic defenses that are no longer useful.
Chris Williams: As I like to say, we go from a reactive, defensive position to a proactive, engaged position. There's a lot that we need to get there. It's a lot of work, but it's necessary. There are a lot of dissociative devices that we have in our world today that have to be addressed because I struggle with some of those for sure.
Brian Perez: We have lots of resources that can help on our website, newlife.com, so check that out. Offense, defense—just in time for football season. That's a random topic I can jump in with. We'll go to the phones in just a moment on New Life LIVE. To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life LIVE. If you have found yourself trapped in unhealthy patterns or are struggling to break free from addiction—whether you're battling substance abuse, pornography, compulsive behaviors, or other destructive habits—recovery can often feel overwhelming and impossible to navigate alone. But freedom is possible and lasting change begins with understanding the deeper roots behind addiction. We've got a webinar coming up in just a few weeks. September 17th is the date. Mark that on your calendar and put it on your phone. 7:00 PM Central Time. It's called "From Addiction to Freedom: Biblical and Clinical Help for Lasting Recovery." You can find out more about it at newlife.com or by calling 1-800-NEW-LIFE or text the word "webinar" to 28950 and we'll send you a link where you can register there. Let's go to the phones now. Here is Norma in Pennsylvania who listens to us on newlife.com. Lisa, you'll be up next, so hang in there. But Norma, what's your question for Dr. Jill and Chris Williams? Norma, are you there? Did you press mute on your phone?
Guest (Norma): It's me.
Brian Perez: There you are. What's going on, Norma? What's your question for us today? Hi, what's your question for us? Oh my God. Okay, hang on. Let's find out what's going on with Norma. Maybe she's listening on her—I don't know what's going on. We'll find out. But Lisa in Mobile, Alabama, listening on newlife.com, welcome.
Guest (Lisa): Hi, thank you so much for taking my call. My question is how to advise my daughter on a life situation that she's going through right now. She's actually been going through it for the last four years. She is married to a man that my husband and I truly believe he does not love her. He is extremely controlling. He is not affectionate. He does not want to have marital relations with his wife. He denies her of that. They do have a baby who is one. He is very, very controlling. For the last four years, as soon after they got married, he has been threatening her with divorce off and on. She came to a point where, after much prayer and counseling with her pastor—they were both in counseling together, but he only went a couple of times and said he didn't want to ever go back—she was ready to file for divorce this week. She brought it up to him over the weekend, and he has completely—it's been like a light bulb has gone off. He's completely remorseful, crying. She said he's a completely different man than she's seen other than the day they got married. I believe—my husband and I believe—that this is a control tactic. Since he's been bringing up divorce for so long and now all of a sudden she brings it up and he's flipped a switch, he wants to pray. Last night he asked if he could pray with her, and she said he's never, ever done that. I just need advice as a parent on how to navigate this and what's the best route for Christian advice I could give to my daughter.
Dr. Jill Hubbard: Lisa, just for clarity here, so they got married and it was one guy, and then as soon as they got married, it's like he became a completely different person. And now that she's saying, "Okay, I'm going to go for divorce that you've wanted," now he's switched back?
Guest (Lisa): Correct. He claims to be a workaholic. He's never, ever home. He sees the baby about 30 minutes a day. I don't know if there's something else going on with him or where he goes, but he is never home.
Chris Williams: I do. There is definitely something else going on with him.
Guest (Lisa): I completely agree. There's no way a man can work during Easter every single weekend. He's not home. He's just not home. And his job isn't even—he's not even a brain surgeon.
Dr. Jill Hubbard: Right. Well, even a brain surgeon doesn't work like that. Work becomes a smoke screen. It's the legitimate smoke screen. Everyone's trying to figure out how he works that much, and the simple answer is he doesn't. There are other things definitively going on because his behavior is telling on him. The fact that he flipped like this tells me that there's a shame core going on inside of him and that's getting exposed. He's flipping the script on that. He's not a changed man; he's in a changed emotional state. That's it.
Chris Williams: He's still the same guy. Let's get that crystal clear. As soon as he gets comfortable again, he'll flip back. He'll get back into that control position. So what he's doing is he's flipping to get back into that control position because he needs to control her. He's set up an entire life around himself that is a facade or smoke screen for what's going on inside of himself and what he's probably acting out in other areas of his life.
Brian Perez: If she leaves him, he loses everything.
Chris Williams: It all comes crumbling down. The facade gets destroyed. There's probably a part of him that really, really wants to be a married man with a child and a family and all of that sort of thing. But you talked about dissociation, and he's living a dissociated life, meaning a double life. So I'm coming in hot here because his flipping like this can be a drug-like effect for her, but don't get high. Don't take the drug. Because the bottom line is that for any healthy relationship to survive and flourish, trust has to be present. It is not there. It doesn't exist. And him flipping into a different emotional state doesn't necessitate trust. Trust is shown integrity over time.
Dr. Jill Hubbard: And transparency will be a huge part of that. So whatever is happening right now—this is a really harsh way to put it, because I'm not saying he's not in remorse, I'm just saying that part of this is if we think of a ringmaster at a circus—this is just part of the circus.
Chris Williams: Right. So she needs to not get hooked into it while she's seeing it play out a little bit because she could ride this out a little bit and allow him to get comfortable again if she needs to prove to herself that he's going to flip back. But there's a lot happening. It does sound like there's a big chunk of his life that he keeps secret.
Dr. Jill Hubbard: Well, and 30 minutes a day, working holidays, working weekends—that's not a marriage. That's not a marriage. And my point in that is that what I would really recommend to your daughter—maybe she listens to this—is she's got to get very clear on criteria for a marriage. What are the specific things needed in a marriage? Time together would be one of those things. Transparency on behavior in relation—has to be one of those things. Deeper connection and growing together has to be part of that. So all of these ingredients that make a marriage don't exist right now. They haven't existed and they don't exist right now, other than he's just in a sorrowful state because the power dynamic has shifted. And notice he wants to pray, but he doesn't want to talk about himself.
Guest (Lisa): Correct. That's right. And she does say he's very private and doesn't want to talk—he doesn't open up. He doesn't talk. And I just got off the phone with her and she just said, "I'm so confused." And the devil is the master of confusion. So it's just hard being a parent trying to get her to see that, like you said, it's smoke screens.
Chris Williams: And clarity comes in the specifics. Clarity comes as mom. You say, "Hey, here's what I understand a marriage to be." And I'm not talking about perfection. I'm just talking about basic criteria. Do those exist? Now, this emotional drug or attachment is actually part of what's called addictive or trauma bonding, where she gets pulled into his remorse because she wants it so badly. Right. And so then she will fill in—women will fill in the blanks and will ride out on the potential that never materializes. They do his bidding for him and do his work for him. "Oh, look, he's turning to the Lord now. Everyone see what a great guy he is." But the truth of the matter is that, again, coming back to the reality of the establishment or restoration of trust in the relationship, again, that's going to be really, really hard work over a long period of time. But if you don't have that, you don't have a marriage. You don't have anything on top of it. That's the foundation of it all.
Brian Perez: Now, she hasn't filed for divorce yet, right?
Guest (Lisa): No, she even found a place to live. She was going to sign the agreement on Monday, and now all of that—and she did say, "I'm moving forward with my marriage," meaning she's being cautious about all of this. But she's just—she said this is a side of him she's just not used to seeing at all.
Chris Williams: Well, and this goes back to "move forward with marriage" does not mean moving forward with him. What I mean by that is you've got to define what a marriage is and can he be a part of that? I'm moving forward with marriage. If you—and here's what this means. I oftentimes tell people at this stage of the game, you've got to get very clear on what it means to be married to you and you're going to let the other person know. Now, again, long term that's not the solution, but immediately, here's what it means to be married to me. Can you do that? If you can't, then there are other discussions to be had.
Brian Perez: And if he says, "Well, I'm the provider of the home. I've got to work," because he's putting up this—
Dr. Jill Hubbard: Right, but no, he needs to come clean. She needs to see behind the curtain because there are too many mysteries. Now, she could take the stance where she goes ahead and moves out but doesn't file for divorce and they separate and she says, "Okay, let's take a time where we work on the marriage and let me see what you're willing to do."
Chris Williams: When you said that you don't know if he's doing anything behind the scenes, I'm like, "I do." Meaning that all criteria and indications of a double life are all there. I mean, he's checking every box, which means that the marriage can't move forward unless he comes clean and starts disclosing and getting really honest with that. And that's going to be, quite honestly in his situation, a Mount Everest.
Guest (Lisa): So you honestly think there's more to this than just him going to work?
Chris Williams: Oh, yeah. I think that there are chapters and chapters of unread stories behind this, for sure. We hope we're wrong, right? But it just reeks of a double life. But the relationship—and it's not even just the time away. It's the way that he's flipping script. The way that he's absent, the way that he's controlling, and then flips it to remorse. That is all emotional—he's protecting a secret. Like, that to me is one plus one equals two. As opposed to if he did have a double life, wouldn't this be his opportunity to say, "Oh, you know what? Now I can just go and do this other thing that I want to do." But he needs this life to give him something. It's the facade. And it makes him look good to have this facade. The facade has got to become the reality—and the other facade too, whatever else is going on.
Brian Perez: All right, you guys, be in prayer for Lisa's daughter as she navigates this time in her life. People call us with such hard things that they're going through, and sometimes we have to tell them the truth of what might be happening. We'll be back on New Life LIVE. To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life LIVE. You might have heard us talk about the Hope Together conference that's happening this October in Allen, Texas. It's also happening online. What I appreciate about Hope Together is that it isn't just inspiration—though inspiration's good—but you'll leave with practical tools that you can immediately use in conversations with people who are struggling with anxiety, marriage issues, trauma, grief, addiction, parenting, and so much more. You can visit hopetogether.com to learn more about this. It's happening October 1st through the 3rd. And if you use this code, NLM20, you'll get a 20% discount. NLM as in New Life Ministries, 20 as in 20% off. Again, the website is hopetogether.com. Let's talk to Norma in Pennsylvania. Let's hope she's with us this time. Norma, are you there? Thanks for listening on newlife.com. Welcome.
Guest (Norma): Hi. I have one question. My granddaughter got saved and she wants me to baptize her. And I don't know if that's biblical or not, that a woman baptizes.
Chris Williams: All right. And Norma, do you know if it is permissible in your particular tradition?
Guest (Norma): I mean, I've been around people that baptize and stuff like that, but I never seen a woman baptizing. And in the Bible, I never read about a woman baptizing.
Chris Williams: Yeah, I mean, this is just my two cents perspective on it. I don't see anything in scripture that prohibits women from baptizing others, especially women baptizing women. What warms my heart about all of this is what I think is the much more important and larger issue, and that is faith being passed down generation to generation. That warms my heart, Norma, so much, and that your granddaughter honors you and sees the value in you and sees the value in your faith in the way that you've lived that out and expressed it to her as choosing you as the person to baptize her.
Dr. Jill Hubbard: What an honor, Norma, that she would want you to do that, to have that special moment with her. And I think, just for peace of mind, you could go and talk to one of your pastors, talk to them about how to do it or could you do it in conjunction with something that's happening at church when they do a group baptism—could you then baptize your granddaughter? You can talk about the particulars.
Chris Williams: Yeah, because we don't want to give you advice that would be contrary to your denomination or tradition and their beliefs.
Guest (Norma): I'm Pentecostal.
Dr. Jill Hubbard: Okay. Well, yeah, I would talk to them.
Guest (Norma): And my husband was a pastor for 40 years.
Chris Williams: Oh, what does he say?
Guest (Norma): Well, he's out of the picture. He fell from grace. He disappeared. For 15 years, we don't know where he's at. We don't even know if he's dead or alive.
Brian Perez: Oh my goodness. That's so sad. Wow.
Guest (Norma): So I stay close to God and I still humble and cherish the Bible. And it seems like everybody in my family draws to me.
Dr. Jill Hubbard: Well, you're the matriarch now, Norma. You're the matriarch of the family. It makes sense if the pastor grandpa fell from grace, well, I can see why your granddaughter is looking to you. You've stayed strong. Who do you have that you can talk to about this, Norma? About your husband not being anywhere for 15 years—you not even knowing where he's at?
Guest (Norma): But to tell you the truth, I was happy when he left because he wasn't giving a Christian life profession to other people. Like, he was doing things in the church that wasn't good. So he had a foot in the church and a foot in the world. So I talked with him and I decided that we should separate because I want to live a good Christian life to give an example to my family and those around me. So he felt ashamed, then he got really sick, his kidneys were failing, and he disappeared. Fifteen years we haven't seen him or heard from him.
Brian Perez: Wow. Do you think the Restore conference might be something that Norma might benefit from?
Chris Williams: Could be, yeah.
Brian Perez: That's happening in November, and it's a whole weekend where you can be with other women who have gone through maybe a similar situation like yours. It's for women who have been betrayed.
Dr. Jill Hubbard: Well, and certainly he betrayed the church and betrayed you by having one foot in the world and acting out in ways.
Chris Williams: And I think there could be great resources at the Hope Together conference as well. But again, Norma, we want to honor you for putting God center and first, for persevering in your faith, and for that faith to really be shown amongst your family. And I love what you shared, Jill, about her—she's now the matriarch. And I think that she's the perfect fit for it.
Brian Perez: Thanks for calling us today, Norma, on New Life LIVE. We're going to take a quick break and then we'll take another phone call. Monica in Los Angeles, we will talk to you when we return here on New Life LIVE. I'm Brian Perez here with Chris Williams and Dr. Jill Hubbard and we love talking to you guys, so call in right into the show. We love hearing from you. Every day we hear from people all over the world who are looking for hope. They've been lost in a relationship struggle, addiction, anxiety, depression—all kinds of ways. Wouldn't you love to be part of a rescue team? Don't miss your opportunity to be part of something that changes lives every single day because everyone matters. Your generosity helps find them. And you know, we've seen God work in the lives of so many people over the years here at New Life, and we want to invite you to be part of what God is doing. 99 for the 1 is our partner program that you can give to the ministry on a monthly basis to make sure that we continue to reach out to the lost. Call 1-800-NEW-LIFE, 1-800-639-5433, or newlife.com/99for1. Join the mission. Rescue the one and restore the many. To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life LIVE. Every day of the week, people reach out to New Life and we want to be here for them and we so appreciate when you guys come alongside us financially. Prayerfully, too, of course, goes without saying, but financially, either a one-time gift or you can become a monthly 99 for the 1 partner. There is so much that we do here at New Life, not just on the radio program, but we do the podcasts, we do webinars, we do the weekend intensives—so much going on. And you guys help us speak truth when it's needed most and let people know that healing resources are ready without delay. So do what you can. Every gift is appreciated. You can find out more at newlife.com or by calling 1-800-NEW-LIFE or text NLM to 28950 to make a one-time gift or become a 99 for the 1 partner and jump alongside us on a monthly basis. Thank you so much for whatever you can do. Monica in Los Angeles, listening on newlife.com, welcome.
Guest (Monica): Thank you.
Brian Perez: Hi, how can we help you?
Guest (Monica): My question is I find it's very difficult for me to accept a compliment from family, from friends, from my husband. They tell me so many nice things, but it's very hard for me to accept them. I just say that's not true, that is not true, that is not true. How can I get rid of this? Could it be a result of a possible low self-esteem? I just don't know.
Dr. Jill Hubbard: Monica, I feel so sad for you that it's hard for you to hear the good things about yourself. At one level, Monica, one thing I want you to think about is that when people give you a compliment, it's their opinion. And so people get to have their opinions, and they get to have their opinions about you. When you say, "It's not true, it's not true," you're rejecting their opinion. Compliments—you don't have to believe it, but it's okay to allow people to have their opinion. And your response is, "Thank you," or "Thank you for your opinion." Now, there's a deeper problem, Chris, right? In terms of the low self-esteem and the shame that you feel when someone says something nice. Monica, has this gone on your whole life, or when did you really notice it being more of a problem?
Guest (Monica): My whole life. My whole life. My father was very strict to us and especially with me. So I am watching like I'm not going to do this. If I do something, I try to do it just the best I can because then I feel I didn't do a good job. And I feel like you said, ashamed.
Chris Williams: So Monica, if I were to take your relationship with your father, and let's say your father taught you about who you were, as a result of being in relationship with your father, what have you believed about yourself?
Guest (Monica): That I wasn't good enough.
Chris Williams: Pause. Right. So if you just stay right there, that then becomes the core belief about you. And by the way, you just happen to have the most common shame message on planet Earth: not good enough. And so this happens in a very sneaky but powerful way: that when we start believing that about ourselves at a young age, we then start building evidence for the rest of our lives, and then we become really, really attached to it. In a weird kind of way, it's a comfort blanket, but it's a comfort blanket with spikes. I mean, it's just really weird for sure. So when somebody compliments you, it becomes offensive to your belief system.
Dr. Jill Hubbard: It doesn't support it. Absolutely. And then there's some dissonance there, right? "Well, what do I do? This doesn't support the narrative that I've created." And it becomes scary and out of control. But I love what you said, Jill, like, "Hey, this is—they get to have their opinion, they get to have their perspective." And I think all of us need to hear that accepting a compliment is first honoring the other person. Absolutely. But we still deal with this problem of how do I absorb goodness, especially when other people are reflecting it back to me. What you absorbed in your home growing up was that you're not good enough, and so that's what you know how to absorb. You don't know how to absorb the goodness that other people experience in you. And that's going to take time, but it's going to take some vulnerability on your part to, one, start believing that you've got some really good things inside of yourself. And it's a balance. Human beings are both wonderful and terrible all at the same time, and we hold that tension within us. We hold the tension of Romans 7 and Romans 8, right? We're wonderfully, fearfully made, but we also have sin inside of us, things inside of us that are off.
Dr. Jill Hubbard: And it's so interesting, Monica, you work really hard to try to be really, really good, right? And when someone recognizes that, you only accept being really, really bad. Do you see how that is? So that's where all of your striving is, and yet you're just holding on to that badness. So one thing, okay, people say nice things to you. I know you push them away. But I wonder if maybe sometime when you're alone, you could remember some of those things. And I'm wondering if you could actually write down—"Okay, my friend Mary said this." Put their name by it and write down what they said about you. You're not evaluating whether it's true or false. You're just documenting what they said about you. And I want you to keep that list. So part of being able to absorb good is that we need to allow it in. And I get that in front of people, you feel too much shame. So by yourself, I wonder if you could take that list out—maybe once a day—and read over, "This is what Mary thinks about me. This is what Sam thinks about me," and allow these people to have their opinions about you and to kind of reflect them back to you.
Brian Perez: And this is what Brian, Chris, and Jill think about you: you're a wonderful person, Monica. Absolutely. We love that you called in, Monica.
Chris Williams: I think along with that, Monica, as another thing you can do is—the sneaky thing about "not good enough" is that we work really, really hard to overcome it. And so I see this all the time in core shame messaging. People who believe that they're a failure work really, really hard to succeed or overcome the failure. And if you point out anything that's off or wrong or didn't work out or maybe they failed at, it just becomes fire on the soul rather than, "Hey, not everything works out. It's okay." So the thing about "not good enough" that I want you to do is learn how to let go of it. You don't need it. It's one of those archaic defenses. Yes, it's not only is it not true, but the more that you try to overcome it, the stronger it gets. That's the real paradox. The more someone tries to overcome failure, the stronger failure becomes and it becomes a driving force. That's how we get attached to it. And so the trick there and the real work there is letting it go. I don't need it. It's not useful in my life. So God, I'm surrendering to you the fact that I don't feel good enough today and then replacing that with something else like you said, the compliments of other people. And maybe just a hardcore truth of "I'm loved." And when I'm deeply loved and valued in that way, I don't care if I'm good enough or not. It loses its teeth, it loses its power. And that's the work to again let it go and engage in believing something different.
Dr. Jill Hubbard: Right, but that is a hard process because your mind will immediately want to reject it. And so that's why I was talking about having something concrete so that you could look at it. And at first, you'll barely be able to look at it. And so then it's like, "Okay, I'm going to look at it for a few seconds longer. I'm going to believe that God loves me and made me enough. I'm going to think about it for a few seconds longer than I did the day before," and slowly let it seep in.
Brian Perez: On top of not being able to take compliments from other people, do you also find yourself apologizing for everything? Is that kind of what you do all the time?
Guest (Monica): Yes, every minute. I say, "I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry."
Brian Perez: And what you're saying is, "I'm sorry I'm not enough." And you're the only one that thinks that. So what if you also apologized less? Good point, Brian. We've got to take a break, Monica. I think we have a couple more things to say to you when we come back here on New Life LIVE. Thank you so much for calling in today. And you are enough. There are so many promises in God's word that are for you and you can accept those today. You don't have to think, "Oh, this is for other people." No, it's for you. God loves you. We'll be right back here on New Life LIVE. To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life LIVE. All right, back to Monica for a few more minutes. Quick question for you, Monica: how's your relationship with God?
Guest (Monica): It's great. I love Jesus with all my heart. He's my only—I believe what he tells me. And I love him. He's my joy.
Chris Williams: I love that question, Brian, because one of the things that—my confession time too—Monica, I struggle with the exact same thing. That's been my historical shame of not good enough, not enough. And so in this struggle to let it go, one of the things I learned is that I love Jesus, but one of the struggles is allowing Jesus to love me. It is staying vulnerable to the wild, audacious love of God that sees me as infinitely valuable, as he'd rather die than be without me. He wants to be my friend. He wants me to be his child in a way that a good father would lavish upon. And so continuing to enter into that relationship more and more and more. And that's why I loved what you were saying, Jill, about we need to increase our tolerance for hearing the good.
Dr. Jill Hubbard: Because doing good for others and even loving others—it's a risk, but it's not nearly as vulnerable as allowing others to do good for us or others to love us. And so we need to increase that vulnerability to the goodness and love of others for us. Right. So going back to my list, it's sometimes as you read it and you're going to want to reject it, ask yourself, "Well, what if this was even a little bit true? Could I see it as a little bit true?" And you know what? You can do this with truths from the Lord, too. You can write down the lies and the truths from the Lord. And do I really believe this? I say I believe it, but am I really taking it in? Am I really trusting that he loves me and he didn't make a mistake?
Brian Perez: Do you think "Take Your Life Back" would be a good book for her to read?
Dr. Jill Hubbard: I do. I think that would be a really good book. Sure, yeah.
Brian Perez: Monica, we suggest you get that book in the newlife.com store. You know what? Let me put you on hold and we can get you more information about that book. It's one of our favorites to recommend. It's one that you guys often purchase and then give to your friends. It's called "Take Your Life Back." It's in the newlife.com store. Hey, something else coming up really soon here at New Life is the Every Man's Battle intensive. It is a weekend workshop—it's three days for men who are ready to get honest about their sexual integrity issues, break destructive cycles, and rebuild what matters most. The next workshop is the 11th of September in Orange County, California—starts on the 11th, I should say. The early bird rate ends tomorrow. So we'll give you a great discount if you register by tomorrow. You can do that at newlife.com or better yet, call us at 1-800-NEW-LIFE. We would love to help you get registered for that. Hey, there's another way that you can get in touch with us here at New Life. You can call us when we're here in the studio, or the lounge as I like to call it. But you can also email us in case you can't call when we're here. So the way to do that is to go to newlife.com/radio. Shows you the form that you can fill out and that gets your question to us, or you can also leave a voicemail there. It's a different phone number, not the number that we give out here on the show. But Michelle in Salisbury, Maryland, who listens on the New Life app, sent us a question and she says, "I'm legally separated. So is my boyfriend. We've been dating for three years. We are intimate, and it's been on my mind lately regarding sex before marriage being a sin. We love each other. We do plan to get married after our divorces are final, which is another story." Michelle says, "I'm worried if I stop being intimate until marriage, I might lose him. I haven't discussed this with him yet. What do I do?" What do you guys say?
Dr. Jill Hubbard: Discuss it with him. Because she's assuming things and using sex to hold them together. And the problem is being intimate—when we go to the physical, we circumvent the emotional. And so it's where we naturally want to go each time, and so then that becomes the measure of how much does this person care for me. And as she's finding out, it's quite insecure. It's not her developing a secure attachment with her boyfriend. And so if she's afraid she's going to lose him now, I mean, marriage isn't going to fix that fear. There will be other fears that will crop up. And so this is maybe a first step towards, "Hey, I really love you, I care about you, and so I care enough to be honest with you." And if you lose him, Michelle, because of your honesty—whoa, then that's revealing a lot, and maybe that's what you're afraid of.
Chris Williams: Well, if you keep him because of your honesty, you have another problem—meaning that if you keep him because of your dishonesty, right, or not sharing. But let's say this. Let's look at the guy's position here. If he will not be with you because you won't have sex with him—what does that say? Oh my gosh. So what's going to happen when you're not cute anymore? Well, the point of all that as well is that there is a subtle objectification going on in the process. It's a devaluing of you, Michelle: that you exist in your value as a sexual experience for him, not a whole person experience for him, and that that's where your primary value is coming from. And you're setting it up by your participation. And that's where maybe do some a little bit deeper work to see if maybe your lived experience or messaging in life is that as a woman, that your value is as a sexual being rather than a whole being. And so I kind of think of this as if we think of a pyramid, and this is the pyramid of healthy relationship—at the very bottom of healthy relationship is safety and security. That's the bottom layer. The layer on top of that is trust. And then the layer on top of that is intimacy, and the layer on top of that is common life together. And so if there is insecurity here and you're trying to overcome it by bypassing trust and going straight to sex, the whole thing is insecure. And so I want you to have a secure relationship, so to your point, Jill, I think it's really important to have the conversation.
Dr. Jill Hubbard: Yeah. And there are lots of couples—I mean, unfortunately lots of Christian couples fall into having sex before marriage. But I've also known couples that have said, "Okay, we want to grow more in our relationship with the Lord, we want to build a stronger foundation, so we're going to stop doing that. Even though—and we're going to confess it, confess it to the Lord, and we're going to move forward and we're going to abstain." And those marriages end up being stronger and healthier because the lack of trust, Chris, you're right, that having sex promotes—that I can't trust you to be strong, to curb your desires. You're also hijacking other forms of intimacy. The emotional intimacy just gets put on the shelf. And then it's like, "Why aren't we close? Why can't we talk?" Well, because it's easier to be physical than to be emotionally close.
Brian Perez: And is it something they should stop immediately, or should they like wean off of it—like saying, "Hey, we're doing it five times a week, we're going to go down to four"? No, no, no. I know the answer to this question. It's just got to be that clean break. It can't be something that—
Chris Williams: Yeah. And I think in that, it's going back to—this is the delicate subject, but if it all becomes centered around just not having sex, you end up missing the bigger point. The bigger point is that the relationship needs work on other areas and sex is in the way of that. We need to build trust and emotional connection and safety.
Brian Perez: We have a book in the newlife.com store called "Trust." Pick that up right now. We are done! That's all the time we have. Talk to you tomorrow!
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